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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 15, 2014 6:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hope you listen to the Franklin's above it is mighty fine.
Jerry blows a few transition lines but the jams are so hot they could just do it as an instrumental.

Franklin's-exposition

A biblical connection with Franklin's Tower
Thinking in terms of the 'watchman' referenced in EZEKIEL
"One watch by night, One watch by day".
and also the human race since the fall in Eden has been busy planting a lot of ice.

Ezekiel 33 (New American Standard Bible)

7 “Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand. 9 But if you on your part warn a wicked man to turn from his way and he does not turn from his way, he will die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your life.

10 “Now as for you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus you have spoken, saying, “Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we are rotting away in them; how then can we survive?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’ 12 And you, son of man, say to your fellow citizens, ‘The righteousness of a righteous man will not deliver him in the day of his transgression, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he will not stumble because of it in the day when he turns from his wickedness; whereas a righteous man will not be able to live by his righteousness on the day when he commits sin.’ 13 When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his
righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die. 14 But when I say to the wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, 15 if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.

17 “Yet your fellow citizens say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right,’ when it is their own way that is not right. 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, then he shall die in it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and practices justice and righteousness, he will live by them. 20 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.”

Isaiah 45:21
“Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.

Romans 3:10
as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one;

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Keep your lamps
Trim and Burning
-Chris Freedom

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Mar 16, 2014 7:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

In other words, there is no Biblical connection except that the Bible uses a similar word ("watchman," which actually isn't in Franklin's Tower. Although it does have words that ARE in the Bible. Like "mother," or "tower," or "the.")

But of course if you want to write a sermon, you can use anything. Some ministers use NPR as a jumping-off point. Or Wizard of Oz. Or football. Whatever.

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 17, 2014 1:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hey Althea Rose;

No, I would say that Hunter has infused some dead songs with biblical references.
The line in Franklin's about "one watch by night, one watch
by day" seems to be biblical in nature. To me it has the feel of the chapter of Isaiah I referenced. It also parallels the rebuilding of the walls after the Jews returned from the Persian exile but I felt that might be to obscure a reference for this forum.
There are tunes like the Wheel that almost certainly are biblical infused -refer to book of Ezekiel and G-D'S presence in the temple.
The other references in the Book of Romans help to explain the chapter in Isaiah. It is better to let the Bible speak for itself.(I.M.O)

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Mar 17, 2014 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hunter uses biblical references and allusions in places, along with references to all kinds of other works in the Western literary canon; he's a veritable reference/allusion machine. Drawing on our rich stock of cultural references is something that many writers do without being Christian or having a biblical message or being "inspired by scripture" except in the sense of cultural knowledge (which is not the same as belief or conviction.)

And just because he sometimes does make references doesn't make every use of a word that also happens to occur in the Bible a reference. The Wheel, for instance, also resonates with the Buddhist wheel of life/samsara (which makes a lot of sense given the New Age context of No. California life and Hunter/the Dead), and while it certainly also resonates with the wheel of Ezekiel, that reference is more likely to come through the spiritual "Ezekiel Saw the Wheel," which is essentially quoted, than from a specific, Biblically infused focus on the actual book of Ezekiel that would refer in some oblique way to god's presence in the temple and lead to other bible passages in a way that somehow sheds light on Hunter's intent or the song's real meaning. It's a poetic mash-up of concepts, rather than a series of biblical leads.

Back to Franklin's. If it has "the feel" to you of biblical writing, well, that's only natural -- you read the bible a lot, so you'll see it in a lot of places where it may not be intended. Someone else may say it sounds Shakespearean or that it makes them think of the medieval era or Lord of the Rings. (Towers and all.) Hunter himself says that he was thinking of the ideals of the American Revolution and never refers to any biblical inspiration:

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/fauthrep.html

I have to say I never see Franklin's as having references to early American ideals and their fracturing in Vietnam. Personally I have a very different take on it. But part of Hunter's point, of course, is that knowing the writer's intent can be sadly reductive and limits the song's meaning.

So of course you can understand it however you choose to understand it. But if you're actually going to claim to be explicating it, you can't just quote a bunch of bible verses that reflect on each other and think that supports your view or sheds much light on the song itself, except for the journey it takes you on personally. Which isn't about the song. It's about you and your own interests. Maybe to a Christian the Book of Romans has something to do with Isaiah, but none of it relates to Franklin's Tower or the Dead. That's your journey, Chris/t Freedom, and that's fine, but it's not really literary explication; it's a sermon.

"Today we take as our text 'Franklin's Tower' ..."

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 18, 2014 4:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

AltheaRose;

I have been too flip with this whole thing.
I can hear the voice of my friend from Three Fisted Lullaby in your voice.
I was always the one who tripped the hardest and took the longest to come down.
The piece I did on Alabama Getaway I thought was pretty good. It surprised me how it came together and especially the possible connection to the civil rights movement.
I never saw myself as an Estimated Prophet before.
Thanks for the Hunter link!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Mar 18, 2014 5:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Yeah, I think you had some really good points on Alabama Getaway. It's not one of my favorite tunes, so I'd never devoted any thought to it, but that writeup made me look at it in new ways. I thought you stretched it a bit to fit your spiritual orientation, but not too terribly far -- there are some interesting insights in that writeup. I can't recall if I commented or not.

Three Fisted Lullaby?!? Did you live in Colorado?

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 18, 2014 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hey AltheaRose;
I kept an eye on that band because my friend JoAnne left the East Coast to grace the Rockies and eventually be part of Three Fisted Lullaby.
I know they gained a nice following in Boulder. Which was one of the coolest places I have ever been.
Thanks for the kind words on the Alabama Getaway write up.
I should have heeded Micah who asked me discreetly awhile back to simmer down.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 18, 2014 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Frankly, ahem, I think that Hunter liked to play the "interpret as you see fit" card too often (as if it is a "better" literary approach or some such). Not that it matters a jot, just sayin, he was big on it.

Nonetheless, I don't think it's really "rocket science" to attempt to determine what a writer was influenced by at the time to cause them to write a particular lyric (even if later they stomp their feet and say "NO!"...or whatever).

Recall that kid--deniro?--the one hereabouts that said USBlues was a drug song, pure and simple? I think that was it...for both that tune and FT, I simply see that Hunter was impacted by the massive PR build up to the bicentennial as we all chatted about here...and, yeah, having grown up in a Jesuit/Catholic environment, I make use of the "language" of religion, but it has NO meaning whatsoever except in a cultural immersion sense of common experience (eg, kids in catholic HSs and so on).

Right on w the sermon vs explication...I am explicatin' left and right, and everyone here thinks I am lecturining...or at least BD recognizes it as such. Duke--y.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Mar 18, 2014 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Haven't seen deniro in ages.....did I miss something?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 18, 2014 7:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

No, I think he just faded away...boy, that seems like ages ago; he came on in a rush, posting left and right, and was just a kid, if I recall...you know you've been around when you can (vaguely) recall the rise and fall of a poster, eh?

;)

Hope all is well w the garden and the fam!

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Mar 18, 2014 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Same to you PM....

Fam is well, although I'm getting a little impatient waiting for the word that I am going to be a grandpa. I'll be needing a maturity equal to hang out with.

Garden is at least 6 weeks behind. We had another hard freeze in SE VA last week and that's as late as it's been in the 15 years we've been here. We normally plant onions and garlic in December - not this year. By now, I should be picking lettuce and mustard for salads - the flats are sitting in the garage waiting for the deep freeze danger to pass. I haven't even been able to assess the damage to our perennials although it looks like the figs, blueberries, blackberries, nectarine, peach, apricot and cherry trees/bushes made it. I'm going to be pissed at Al Gore if my artichokes don't bounce back.....we got 60 artys off the plant last year.

Another shoulder rebuild coming up in April - just in time to nix my plans to attend Del Fest. FloydFest ticket package is in hand. Looking at 4 days at the Outer Banks Bluegrass Festival in September, possibly Lock'n again. And Festy in October.

Life goes on....hope you and yours are well and you enjoy your pending grandparenthood!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 16, 2014 8:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Yeah, that is the problem, it seems to me...plus, the potential for offending every/any/some one. Funny, though--it's really just like how Monte relates everything to suppression (er, "deletion") of all things "hippie". And of course, Rich, who can go from zero to sixty vis-à-vis hockey and profanity faster than fast...

;)

I stick to CREAM and 68, w rare references to military exploits of note (though largely independent of religion).

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Mar 16, 2014 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Of course, I don't think Rich has ever claimed that the Dead were really singing about hockey and therefore you should convert to hockey-ism.

And if you were posting a long link about Stalingrad that related it to the "plant ice/harvest wind" line in Franklin's -- not just humorously or as an offhand comment, but as an actual serious effort to link the two -- and did something similar about Stalingrad on a regular basis as if it was your personal mission to convert people to your Stalingrad viewpoint by showing how your own view of Stalingrad linked with the Dead's entire oeuvre ... well, I don't think it would go over real well.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbeep* Date: Mar 16, 2014 9:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Dogma is dogma, dogdammit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMRrS_zYKDg

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Mar 17, 2014 2:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

That's pretty brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMXQJGMa1w4

The above tune even has a GD link. "Early in March Garcia had volunteered as a lighting technician for a production of Damn Yankees at Palo Alto's Commedia Dell'art Theater, and was introduced to a young man named Robert Hunter." (McNally, p. 26)

McNally implies it was '61.

So we can thank a musical about baseball for the GD. Incidentally, this song was sung by a woman who is, in the play, literally a friend of the devil :-)

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2014-03-17 09:17:20

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 17, 2014 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Roger or should I say Reg.

Beep*
As far as I can tell human beings are the biggest problem on planet earth.(The whole lot of us)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbeep* Date: Mar 17, 2014 7:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Roger or should I say Reg.

The general had a good insight:

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living." - Omar Bradley

My dad worked with him during the war. (the good war, not the great war!)

But now that we're on a Roger thread, here he explains our plight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRNIgOnams8

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful." – Senaca 50 AD

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 18, 2014 6:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Roger or should I say Reg.

Have a pic of Omar & my FIL on the wall; they played poker together in TX regularly...OB would actually fly my FIL in for a game...that's military power for ya.

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 18, 2014 3:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Roger or should I say Reg.

BEEP*

Those were men and women of good stock.
We don't know what serious hard times in our generations thanks to the sacrifices made by our elders. (and I would add by the Grace of GOD)

Roger Waters - 5:06 AM (Every Stranger's Eyes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKNOW0t5H0
One of my favorites!

Also religion sucks because it organizes some and excludes others under the banner of human righteousness.
"They say, 'LOVE YOUR BROTHER'
but you catch it, when you try"-Unbroken
The Bible says, "Be Righteous, For I AM RIGHTEOUS"
To me that is the horns of the human dilemma!

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 16, 2014 8:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Google says: No results found for "biblical references in cream's lyrics".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ibVbxkjnA

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Poster: snoori Date: Mar 17, 2014 7:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

And yet...
'I went down to the crossroads,
Fell down on my knees.
Asked the Lord above for mercy,
"Save me if you please."

Although I don't know if that's Johnson or Clapton (Cream) lyrics.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 17, 2014 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

I thought the same when pondering the blues' covers -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj5vyh3Y3Nc

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Poster: snoori Date: Mar 17, 2014 9:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

If in doubt consult the Bonzos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-TVrR8wZc&;feature=kp

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 17, 2014 10:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Excellent response!

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Mar 17, 2014 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

That part is Johnson, I believe.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 16, 2014 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

I've always been fond of this version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld_tg4W7Hf8

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Mar 16, 2014 5:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hahaha.

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 16, 2014 1:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Hey Blue Devil;

An area we can hopefully agree to disagree.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Mar 16, 2014 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Agreed

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/miller.html

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Poster: c-freedom Date: Mar 17, 2014 1:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Sunday Song: Franklin's

Blue Devil;

I posted the B. Miller article as part of one of the earlier 'Sunday Songs' and I agree with most of where it goes and what it says.
It certainly is a good starting point for any conversation in this area involving the music and lyrics of the Grateful Dead and Scripture.
I know when I am looking at the lyrics of the Dead I am bringing my own bias into the equation.
Yet with that being said there is certainly a strand of biblical thought running through many dead tunes as B. Miller himself acknowledges.
Is it exclusively biblical? No, of course not.
'I need a miracle' might have a church vibe to it but I think we all know it is a party song and then some!
But when I read the Bible and dwell on some of my favorite Dead tunes I get the feeling that Robert Hunter (at least) has certainly been inspired by Scripture.
To what extent and how much as a text of faith that is between him and God.
The text of Scripture are by nature offensive to humanity because they call us to account.
Heck, my nickname is FREEDOM I have never liked constraints of any kind from anybody at any time.
Yet. the Bible resonates with me in a similar way as when I first heard the Grateful Dead and then went to my first JGB show in the summer of 84.
Also I am not into organized religion. For the most part I see it as idol worship. There are certainly as many people inside of religion who need a good dose of Scripture and the love of JESUS as those outside religion.
My love for Deadhead's stems from my time on the road following the band. That was my blood, sweat and tears family! [IMO- Furthur is the next generation but not mine]
So I want to share what has been the most major change in my life since my tour days and that is my love for the Word of GOD and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
And I also want to explore the music I came of age with, it's roots and to keep searching for the sound!
It is kinda like having a party and trying to get everyone I invited to mingle but the guests at the party represent many varied interests. In the old days I could have spiked the fruit punch bowl and just stood back and let the good times and mayhem roll.
Today I have my memories of those weird but wonderful days on tour.(What I can remember-I still treasure) and my Bible (which I love but most of the world hates.)
The words of Hunter that keep coming back to me are "Does GOD look down on the Boys in the Barroom" and my life experience says, 'Yes' and my Bible says, 'Yes'[reference-Jesus on the prodigal son]
The advise Hunter gives in Franklin's is when I get confused, " Listen to the music play" and the Dead's music has certainly been the soundtrack to my life.
Thanks for taking the time to respond BD !
-Chris
"Nobody left to run with anymore"- Allman Brothers